Wednesday, July 20, 2005

My Thoughts on Point/Counterpoint

My thoughts to today's Point/Counterpoint.

"Can you have spirituality/faith/belief without it's counterpart, religion or God?{ Does an atheist still participate in spirituality/belief/faith without the God or religion?} Explain your opinions. "

I think you missed something here? Or perhaps it is there with the "or" but not pointed out clearly. I think a point/counterpoint is the difference between religion AND God! I say this because I think they are 2 different things. I mean it is first obvious when you see that many may believe that there is one God but different ways of honoring him through different religions. This is where many disagree - how to honor him (or her!) through religous practice. Two people both have faith God exists, but then disagree on the religion or practice of honoring God. So I would not say religion is the same thing as God...again maybe that is why you put "Or". Of course how you define God in the first place may be due to a religion's definition & if you have only explored one definition, it may lead you not to belief in God. Perhaps if you explored other definition you may believe in God...maybe not but perhaps. 


In Paul's comment: "Atheism, for some people may have been born of a rejection of a church, perhaps due to a bad experience" is exactly what I mean about religion & God being different. This person experienced a definition of God OR how to honor him (her) and disagreed & didn't see other religions may define & honor him (or "her", as someone in my past reminded me!) differently. I agree for many of us we may even come toindividually define & find ways of honoring him (her), some not in great ways (money/wealth etc). As someone else commented on the "existence" idea...lets say I have never met my Great-Great-Great Grandmother. I have photos of her (hmmm.. was photos around then? Well you get the point!), letters she wrote, a lock of her hair (I have of my Great-Grandmother!), maybe a identification card or passport, name on a log entering a country etc, etc, etc. I have never seen her. I have never heard her voice. I have never kissed her cheek. Did she not exist? How far (2-3,000 yrs) do we go where we say I don't believe you? It is ok for 100 years? Do I believe George Washington exist because I just have photos, signatures etc. And yes, the further you go back the less you will have to prove, but that does not mean they did not exist. I agree it also doesn't prove it did but that means you can't take a are left in the middle! I do agree just because something is written, doesn't mean it is true, but you can't negate it MAY be true! I know in the past they wrote a "nicer cause of death" on certificates (a legal document) and there are so many others. Heck, society does it even more now and we all exist!

On the psychic comments...this is what I tell my college students. You can prove something to be "untrue", like magnets bending spoons, but just because you haven't proven something to be true does not mean it is not true. It may mean you are unable to test it properly YET! Sure I'm all for getting proof on those who are fraudulent! Many are out there...but there are some still left to be "unexplained". I will add it may be that later we will prove them fraudulent as well! We'll just have to wait & see.

I really did enjoy Rebecca's ideas, though I vary slightly. I still do believe in a God. I do see how some could take personal credit for goodness & then not take responsibility for wrong doing "God must have wanted it this way" an it could lead to not caring what you do at all. Using it in a good manner, perhaps we make mistakes so that we, & others, learn. I've always said, I'd love to believe one day God will explain all to us! I have sooooo many questions! I think sometimes he (she) keeps me alive because I talk so much to him(her) now, he (she) doesn't want to have to answer all these questions if I do come meet him(her). Actually, if you think about it, it has been said that God is in everything... you, me, my cat, the trees, so Rebecca would have some good basis in this. I think the ultimate questions for me which leads me to believe in a God is "Why Am I, and all of us here/exist?" Who started it all? and Why?"


sierrajazz said...

Excellent entry.  When I commented in Point and Counterpoint on this I started writing Religion/vs/God or a relationship with God.  I have been to Baptist, Methodist, Non-denominational.  I have read and studied about Jehovah Witness and many others.  I am NOT a religion.  I am a Christian who believes in God.  And yes many believe in God, yet worship many different ways. But then my entry got toooo long so I revised it.  I didn't think about putting a link to my journal with an entry about it..  great idea.  I like the points you covered here.

jouell3935 said...

Well you did exactly what I intended when I started this journal. Left an educated response to a topic.
I just word the questions, ideas or topics. What and how the writers work and process the idea is up to them.
I didnt set out Point Counterpoint to always have a debate. I was looking for a man and a woman to write on a topic...Is there a difference in the gender on certain topics? Or are we more alike then some like to admit to? The Counterpoint really would come from responses/comments such as yours. Which is how it was intended.
I love this entry. I stay pretty much objective in this journal, as I am just the copy/paste jockey.
I do say that I do believe. In a higher power, I do have spirituality. Yet I have been told my faith is lacking. Of course that depends what denomination I speak with...
Thanks for the great comment!!!!!

grofsand said...

Well thought out!

As for God explaining....and answering your questions..... There are answers and clues to answers all around you....Bob Dylan said it best...."the answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind"..... He was just a little ahead of himself to know how close to the truth he was!

In peace...Marc :)